“It’s impossible for the world to be oblivious to Brazil”, His Excellency, Mr. Alfredo Leoni, Ambassador of Brazil to Pakistan
Maria Khalid
“Pakistan possesses a very significant geographic position with very important neighbors, a considerable territory and a substantial population, thus making it impossible for the other countries to ignore Pakistan”, said Ambassador of Brazil to Pakistan, His Excellency, Mr. Alfredo Leoni in an exclusive interview with Monthly Economic Affairs. “Brazil is very much certain about Pakistan’s bright future and I believe that Pakistan will soon rise above the problems like energy, slow growth and terrorism and development has to come about, whether Pakistan wants it or not, in fact prosperity of the entire region partially depends upon growth and development of Pakistan that’s why Brazil gives special importance to relations with Pakistan and regards it as a vital power of the region.”
Please give us your view on the Pak-Brazil relations with respect to today’s socio-political environment?
“Brazil maintains strong political ties with Pakistan that continue to grow stronger with each passing year. In the past three to four years, we have made bilateral relations with Pakistan much broader in terms of diplomatic and political relations. We have to first promote more trade between the two, then cooperation in different fields may ensue.” he said.
Ours is the first Latin American country which established its embassy in Karachi in 1952. In all these years, Pakistan and Brazil have cultivated very friendly relations and both countries are supporting each other on many international forums. The trust level that exists amid these two countries is evident from the recently announced (proclaimed) visa policy that offers five-years multiple entry visa facility to the businessmen.
Recently, Brazil’s nominee Mr. Roberto Azevêdo won the elections for Director General appointment at the World Trade Organization. It was a big boost to Brazil’s global clout and I am grateful to Pakistan for its support to Brazil’s candidate in the WTO elections. Pakistan supported Brazil because Brazil is the voice of developing countries and has set sights on addressing the concerns of developing countries in the WTO.
What are the dimensions of Brazil’s foreign policy?
Brazil is a 200 years old which got independence in 1822. Prior to that, it was a territorial extension of Portugal which was a typical colony that didn’t have its own rules of law. However, after declaring independence, Brazil adopted an open diplomatic policy that is friendly to all. Brazil does a lot for cooperation in some major areas such as Latin America, America and Africa.
We do not believe in exclusive diplomacy, rather we do inclusive diplomacy. We maintain cordial relations with nearly all member countries of the United Nations and have embassies in 130 countries of the world.
There are a few countries in the world who enjoy friendly relations with North Korea and South Korea, where as Brazil enjoys cordial relations with both of them. Correspondingly, Brazil is a very close partner of Iran but at the same time we have good relations with Israel as well and it is an evident supporter of Palestinian cause. Brazil does not take sides but we support countries on the fundamentals of right or wrong.
Which are the key areas where relations could be enhanced between the two countries?
Since I have been given assignment in Islamabad, I am making efforts to broaden the scope of relations and also searching for new avenues of cooperation. Brazil has many experiences that may help Pakistan and the most interesting area is agriculture, especially the production of sugarcane. You may ask, why sugarcane, let me tell you, because sugarcane can help Pakistan in meeting its energy requirements also. Pakistan just needs to increase its sugarcane production and also the quality of sucrose in it.
Most Pakistanis may not know that Brazil is the eight largest producer of motor cars and it has the biggest fleet of cars that run on 100 % ethanol fuel that is produced by sugarcane. It could be a substitute of CNG in Pakistan.
Ethanol fuel is a success story in Brazil, how would you describe it?
Brazil’s ethanol program started in 1975 when soaring oil prices had put a chokehold on the economy. Sugar cane was an obvious candidate, given Brazil’s almost endless amount of arable land and favorable climate. As of now, Brazil is the second largest producer of ethanol in the world and the largest exporter of its fuel.
Most car makers in Brazil sell flexible-fuel cars, trucks, and minivans that can use gasoline and ethanol blends ranging from pure gasoline up to 100% ethanol (E100). In 2009, 90% of cars produced ran on sugarcane ethanol. Over half of all cars in the country are of the flex-fuel variety, meaning that they can run on 100 percent ethanol or an ethanol-gasoline mixture. Ethanol accounts for more than 50 percent of current light vehicle fuel demand, and the company expects this to increase to over 80% by 2020.
This is an area in which we can collaborate and on behalf of my government, I have conveyed to my counterparts here that Brazil is open to share its indigenous technology to produce ethanol fuel with Pakistan. It took Brazil 48 years to develop the technology to run motor cars on 100 % ethanol fuel. Ethanol is used for tractors, generators etc and we would soon start using it for planes because it’s clean energy.
Moreover, like Pakistan, Brazil is an agriculture based economy and it has developed its agriculture technology a lot and the experience of Brazil may be handy for Pakistan, for example, to protect its growing crops from insects, the growers do not use pesticide, instead Brazilin farmers use insecticides to protect their crops from insects. There are such bee’s which consume plaque and they don’t eat crop but the germs. Brazilian agriculturalists have developed the friendly insecticides and created a culture of germs. Brazil can assist Pakistan in creating the germs culture and nourishing of friendly insecticides that suit the soil and weather conditions of Pakistan.
Recently, a technical team of Pakistan Agriculture Research Council (PARC) visited Brazil and witnessed the used of insecticides and production of ethanol from sugarcane, its use in cars and generators and they were keen to develop the technology in Pakistan. However, we are still waiting for a ministerial level visit to Brazil from Pakistan so that both countries could sign formal agreements for bilateral cooperation.
Earlier, I have made concrete efforts for the visit of ex-foreign minister, Hina Rabbani Khar, to Brazil but it couldn’t be materialized, though it was scheduled thrice but every time it had to be cancelled at the eleventh hour.
Now, there is more likelihood of a high level delegation visit to Brazil at the earliest as the current Advisor to Foreign Affairs, Mr. Sartaj Aziz is an aficionado of Brazil and has visited many times plus he is a devotee of enhancement of Pak Brazil relations.
Do you see potential in bilateral trade?
Brazil is an emerging power, the sixth largest economy of the world and is the seventh largest consumer market. Brazil is proud to be the first exporter of many commodities including ethanol fuel. Brazil’s imports are around 220bn dollar and exports are 230bn dollars.
As an ambassador of Brazil, my efforts are aimed at promoting Brazil and to make it available here. There is no obstacle for trade with Brazil and let me assure you that it is a profitable market.
Brazil has lots of stake in this region. It has a trade balance of $11 billion with India; its $1 billion with Bangladesh; $850 million with Sri Lanka; and with China, being the largest trade partner of Brazil, we have a trade balance of 75 billion dollar per annum. Unfortunately, the bilateral trade volume of Pakistan and Brazil is as low as $300 million per annum. However, we are eyeing to enhance the bilateral trade to at least one billion dollars in next three years and the potential is there.
The major Brazilian exports to Pakistan include cotton, fuel pumps, plastic, iron and steel, tobacco and pulp among others, while major Pakistani exports to Brazil include textile items, surgical items, soccer ball and manicure instruments including others. “Pakistan produces best quality footballs the world over which is very popular in Brazil being a soccer crazy nation. Especially, in the area of Biotechnology (from agriculture to pharmaceutical research), development of vaccines and in telecommunication and computer engineering, bio-energy, both countries could explore further opportunities.
Brazil produced 86 % of its energy through renewable resources. Have you offered assistance to Pakistan for meeting its energy needs?
Brazil faced the same energy crisis a few years back and was triumphant in overcoming it by means of Hydropower projects.
Importantly, energy is also on top of the list for Brazil. Hydropower is a $2.5 trillion industry in Brazil and I have been talking major companies of this discipline into bringing their representatives to Pakistan. Since it’s something new for them, it is essential to put them in the picture that how safe it is to come here. It is also important for us to let people in Brazil know how profitable the market over here is.
Pakistan is blessed with natural water resources and the solution of power crisis lies in hydroelectric projects by building small dams. These small dams would not only increase power generation but could help chucking flash floods out.
Is the “Brazil cost” – the high cost of doing business in Brazil – being addressed?
Yes, cost of doing business is high in Brazil but the profits are even higher. The cost of living is also high because of high taxes that’s known as ‘Brazil Cost’ but believe me it is a very profitable country that is why Pakistan’s export to Brazil have doubled during last two years.
Brazil is not a mystery. In order to succeed the investor has to invest in locality, you can try to sidestep the local partner but you cannot sidestep localization. You have to be really focused in the country; you cannot believe that you can succeed by controlling from Islamabad. You have to control your investment from Brazil itself as one has to provide competence and growth together; not just through acquisitions but through acquiring competences and you have to be able to provide services that go along with that.
Do you see any chances of extending co-operation in the defense sector and enhancement of defense relations between the two countries in near future?
The scope of defence related relations between the two countries is quite vast and needs to be extended. In last few years, there has been a significant increase in the military relations. Both sides have exchanged some high level visits in this regard. Recently, the naval chief of Pakistan visited Brazil. Pakistan bought some small sized airplanes from Brazil in 2008 and another deal for procurement of defense aircrafts is being negotiated. The military aircrafts manufactured by Brazil that are safe to fly are available for Pakistan at competitive prices. A Brazilin team also participated in naval exercise held last year in Pakistan. Brazil has also sold 100 MAR-1 anti-radiation missiles to Pakistan despite India’s pressure.
What efforts has the embassy been doing to build stronger people-to-people interaction between our countries?
Various cultural activities have been organized between the two countries for promotion of each other’s culture through art exhibitions and conducting musical programmes. We have invited Pakistani artists in the past to visit Brazil and experience its diverse culture, Furthermore, Brazil is also promoting Pakistan’s education sector by offering undergraduate and graduate scholarships in various disciplines to Pakistani students. I believe that this country has huge potential which needs to be explored.
The embassy has already announced Portuguese language free of cost classes at the embassy. Moreover, Brazil also offers post-graduate level scholarships for Pakistani students. Currently, there are about sixty Pakistani students in Brazil for education on a full scholarship.
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